OCT 2005    ALBERTA BIDDING CLUB

 

 

Problem #: 1;   Scoring: Matchpts;   Vul: None;   Dealer: North

   

103
AK987
K9764
5

North

East

South

West

1♣

Pass

1

Pass

1

Pass

?

Pass

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

3D  5-5 invitational - What is your agreement with partner as to what 1C P 1H P 1S means? Playing weak NT this sequence would promise an unbalanced hand by opener. On the current hand partner can pass correct to 3H 4h or try 3NT or 4D RKC for D. Very flexible. :-)Keep in mind that partner's 1S is still forcing and unlimited.

 

Kiz Fung

 

1NT  I may be a notorious overbidder, but at matchpoints (with no points in partner's suits) a plus is everything. 

 

Alex Fowlie

 

1NT  This is a good 10 HCP only if partner fits one of your suits and that's unlikely on the auction so far - in my system, partner is at least 44 in the blacks.  So let's get NT in first.  Picture a typical minimum for partner and see where you want to play - KJxx xx Axx KQxx (and if you're playing with Steve Willard, don't count on the A of diamonds!)

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

2H    The obvious choices are 1NT and 2H. Many experts play 2-way Stayman here: 2C puppets to 2D with invitational hands and 2D is GF. If we played WJS, this bid would be pretty clear-cut. The excellent heart spots make the 2H bid a winner over 1NT.

 

Duncan Smith

 

1NT   An ugly bid , but matchpoints is an ugly game. 2 Diamonds not an option for me , as I play 4th suit forcing to game. 2 Hearts second choice.

 

Ken Penton

 

2D   Not having the pitbull system in me arsenal I'm forced to stretch the truth and bid 2D which is a game force. If partner shows me 3 card heart support I will bid game and if he bids 2NT he plays there.The alternatives of 2NT or 2 hearts just do not do this hand justice

 

BJ Trelford

 

2C  I play 2-way NMF so this is a relay to 2 diamond. I will raise diamond next time showing an invitational hand with 5-5 in the reds. Not playing 2-way NMF I would force this hand to game and bid 2 diamonds.

 

Maurice & Susan

 

3D  So far so good...Maurice and I agree!

 

Doran Flock

 

2H  Not sure what to bid, my hearts are good. 

 

 

2   South has a hand I would open . 5-5 and 2 ½ quick tricks concentrated in the two suits. Having said that , partner has ruined the party. As Ray Grace points out , how do you play your spade rebids ? I rebid all flat hands with a NT bid so this auction shows at least 5♣ & 4 maybe more black cards. You know what this means – the dreaded misfit. In misfit auctions , I play 3 as a splinter by responder. Inviting with red suits opposite a known black misfit makes no Bridge sense. BJ & Bryan point out their methods after a one level auction. If I had the same distribution but with poorer heart spots I would rebid 1NT. 4 seems to be the best shot at game if partner can cooperate. Playing with Bryan or BJ , I would bid 2♣ which is a relay to 2 and then I would bid 2. This shows an invitational hand in hearts as opposed to a drop dead 2bid.

 

VOTES : 2♣ (1)       2 (1)     3(2)    1NT (3)     2 (3)

 

 

 

Problem #:   2;   Scoring:   IMPS;   Vul:   Both;   Dealer:   South

   

5
AQ
AJ10763
A1098

North

East

South

West

 

 

1

1

2

4

 ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

4NT  Blackwood – We do not want to miss the grand. Lets try to construct partners possible hand.1) xx KJTxxx kxx kxx2) xxx KJxxx kx Kxxx 3) ax kxxxx kxxxx x . My point is partner has 8-10 HCP that must contain the HK and another K or a D fit like qxxx and a stiff C. 4NT and then 6D over the expected 1 keycard response and 5NT over the surprise 5H response.

 

Kiz Fung

 

P   This should be forcing, I will pull partner's double to 4NT.

 

Good bid . This should mean pick a game and 5NT pick a slam ?

 

Alex Fowlie

 

Dbl   Pass would be perfect if I was sure partner would think it was forcing.  But I'm not risking a pass unless I'm sure partner is on the same wavelength, and I'm not bidding at the five level with no assured fit.  That leaves a double (maybe partner will pull with a diamond fit).

 

Yes , I would choose double if forcing passes were not on. Eric Kokish once pointed out that a double is a forcing pass in these kinds of auctions in which you are not sure if forcing passes apply & the opponents own their trump suit.

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

4NT   If pass was forcing here (it isn't) that would be the easy bid. The hand is wrong for a double (too many Aces). 4NT here would be takeout, presumably for the minors. When you correct say a 5C bid to 5H, that should be a slam try with a spade control. 5C is natural and non-forcing and should be 65 (with 55 or 64, bid 4NT). 5H should deny a spade control. There are some experts who prefer 4NT here to be RKC - as you have little room to explore for slam anyway. That usually only helps when you have a grand slam or are missing 2 KC's.

 

Duncan Smith

 

P  A forcing pass seems best , since I have no idea what's right. Maybe partner will be better placed. My stiff spade is consistent with pass , but I sure wish I had another heart. Spare me from partners who bid 4nt , saying " it's this hand".

 

Yes , 4NT directly is a little single handed in my opinion. Partner may have diamonds or clubs so will be better placed to be captain of this ship.

 

Ken Penton

 

6H  The opponents have taken away any chance we had to investigate. 2 hearts would show 10 points but he may have a diamond fit with 6 hearts and 9 points-xx KJxxxx KQx Jx. Am not bidding clubs as there was no negative double.

 

BJ Trelford

 

P  Forcing pass. This hand is too good for anything but a pass and pull. When partner dbls I will bid 4nt asking partner to pick the suit.  Must have seen Kiz Fungs answer J

 

Maurice & Susan

 

P  Forcing pass is on. If partner doubles we pass. We can raise any suit bid to 6.

 

Doran Flock

 

P  Forcing pass situation, double doesn't seem right. If ptnr doubles 4s , I pull to something like 5C

 

 

 

 

Pass   The original Bridge World panel of experts agreed that partners 2/1 albeit in competition turned on forcing passes. In these kind of auctions , you look for clues that would mean that your side “owns the auction” . It is logical to agree that an opening bid &

 a 2/1 means that your side has the strength required to turn on forcing passes. Forcing pass theory does not mean that you must have a fit but just that it’s your hand. The forcing pass rules are slightly different when you do not have an announced fit. The pass just means you are getting out of the way for partners penalty double but the “pass & pull” retains the same meaning. It’s the strongest action you can take. I agree with BJ Trelford , Doran Flock & Kiz Fung that the “pass and pull” aspect of forcing pass theory would do this hand justice. 6 of your HCP’s are in partners suit , stiff in the opponents suit , Aces and a source of tricks. The whole gambit.

 

VOTES:  P (6)         4NT (2)         Dbl (1)          6 (1)

 

 

 

 

 

Problem #:   3;   Scoring:   Matchpts;   Vul:   Both;   Dealer:   East

   

5     

K
AQ1093
AQ10863

North

East

South

West

 

2♠

?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

3C      3C followed by 4D or 4NT if necessary The danger is when the bidding goes 4S by lefty. 4NT must be takeout to one of the reds. 3D followed by 5C will get a false preference with equal length.

 

Kiz Fung

 

3C  Partner or West will probably bid something, and I would like to be able to bid 4NT at the next opportunity to show longer clubs.

 

Alex Fowlie

 

3C  Too good to pass, so bid your best suit.  Maybe partner will bid 3NT.  If she bids 3H, I'll make one last NT try with 3S.

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

3C   This bid is pretty clear, although 3S asking for a stopper could work well. 4NT is a bit much. The problem might be if LHO raises and it is passed back to you - do you then bid 4D or DBL or Pass? Now you wish you had bid 3D, then 4C. Still, the percentage call is 3C and then if necessary 4D.

 

Duncan Smith

 

3C   No reason to accelerate the auction. Will show diamonds via 4nt if necessary.

 

Ken Penton

 

3D    As a new panel member you have not made it easy-do not want to risk a double and hear 4H. A direct 4NT is asking too much from partner initially so I'll try and bid both suits and lie about my distribution - if passed out I've played in worse trump suits.

 

BJ Trelford

 

3C   Tough one. The only bid that would show this shape is 4nt but that is suicide. If partner can't move over 3 clubs we are high enough. The possible bids by partner are pass(OK), 3D(I'll raise), 3H(bid 3Spades), 3nt(OK) or raise clubs(OK). My second choice would be pass. 

 

Maurice & Susan

 

3C  Not strong enough for 4NT initially. May back in 4NT later in the auction with more information.

 

Doran Flock

 

3D  No unusual minor situation, hope I don't bury other minor .

 

3♣  Damn , I put in this problem to catch the panel leaping to 4NT. They were far too sensible for this unilateral action for the reasons they give in their replies. You have too much defense and not enough offense for a 4NT bid. They could still be getting into trouble so it is not the right hand for pressure tactics. So , it is panel 1 & moderator 0 on these “baiting the panel” problems . Maybe next month I will do better & catch them napping L

 

VOTES:  3 (2)        3♣ (8)

 

 

 

 

 

Problem #:   4;   Scoring:   IMPS;   Vul:   E/W;   Dealer:   East

   


AQ1083

KQ742

K93

North

East

South

West

 

1

Pass

1

Pass

2

 ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

Dbl     Double - They may be in trouble here. The thing that makes this risky is that they rate to have 9 trumps or 8 good trumps because partner failed to overcall 1S. I would have bid 2D going in to get the hand off my chest.

 

Kiz Fung

 

Dbl   Takeout. I have a strong playing hand, but to bid 3D is too unilateral.

 

Alex Fowlie

 

Dbl  Since I'm not in passout seat, this should show hearts and the minors - what I've got more or less.  Could be wrong if partner is 34 in the minors but could be very right if he has 5 spades.

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

Dbl   The modern  treatment of this auction is to treat the DBL as T/O of spades with a good hand - something like 1444 shape and a strong NT or so. This hand is close. Responder can bid 2NT to say he/she has no clear bid and 3C shows real clubs. Over 2NT you bid 3D but pass pard's 3C.

 

Duncan Smith

 

Dbl   Double shows a good hand with hearts & without (not necessarily a void ) spades. That is what I have.

 

Ken Penton

 

Dbl  Partner should read this as a heart trap with values outside spades-depending on his response I may try 3 S as a game try

 

BJ Trelford

 

P   What happened my first bid. Had I bid 2 diamonds the first time I wouldn't have this problem. If it wasn't good enough the first time, it hasn't got any better now. 3 diamonds could be really bad now. Double would be for the minors and when partner bids 3 clubs I will have no idea how many he has (partner could be 4333 or 5233 on this auction) and I can't correct. I hope they get higher so I can dbl for penalties.

 

Maurice & Susan

 

Dbl   Heart trap...spade shortness. Recipe for telephone numbers if partner can leave it in!

 

 

Doran Flock

 

P  Sure, they might be buried at this level. But what if I come in and it is us buried and not them ??

 

 

 

Dbl   The almost unanimous opinion of the panel shocked me. The reason you trapped in the first place is that they are vul and you are not. It’s a misfit auction and you were hoping that they would get into trouble. Having passed initially , you must follow through with your game plan in a live auction and double. Bridge is a game of taking calculated risks and the vulnerability makes a double just too tempting.  As Maurice & Susan point out , its your opportunity for a telephone number. Bryan points out something I did not know before. He says that this belated double shows values for a strong NT or better. This is nice to know for penalty conversion. Bidding diamonds originally or now just rescues the opponents and robs you of an opportunity. They may be getting a 5-0 spade split and your points are well located. Would you not feel sick by bidding 3 and partner has QJ109x of spades & some scattered HCP’s elsewhere with a stiff diamond ?

 

VOTES:  P (2)         Dbl (8)         

 

 

 

 

Problem #:   5;   Scoring:   IMPS;   Vul:   None ;   Dealer:   South

   

2
AKQ1082
53
AQ109

North

East

South

West

 

 

1

Pass

1

Pass

2♣

Pass

3NT

Pass

 ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

4C   RKC for C if he has 2 I will try for 6 C and live with the 5143 hands where e the C ruff is in the short hand.Do not loose site of the GRAND The benefit of 4C is on 0 or 1 key cards I can bail out in 4H and be safer that 3NT.I hate these sequences. Partner can have a lot of hands here but the most likely is a flat 11-13 with spade and diamond values. The most important card to find out about is the Club King and the red aces.

Possible hands1)    KQxxx X AQxx Jxx  2) QJxx xx AJxx kxx 3) ATxx JX axx kJxx 4)KQxx x kqx jTxxxx . Hand 1 we are in 4H. Hand 2 we are in 4H . Hand 3 we are in 7C . Hand 4 we are in 5C or 4NT.

 

Kiz Fung

 

4H   I think I have had this hand, once in the 80s, once in the 90s and once in this millenium. 3NT just doesn't make most of the time.

 

Besides you get 100 Honours in hearts J

 

Alex Fowlie

 

4H  I presumably rebid 2C because I intended to show a good 64 by rebidding hearts next (with a weak 64, I would have rebid 2H).  I see no reason to change my plan now.  slam is still in the picture if partner has the right cards and she will know if she has them after I bid 4H.

 

Good reasoning.

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

4H  This should show a good 64 hand with slam interest - exactly what you have.

 

Duncan Smith

 

5H  Partner should work out what to do. Surely we have safety at the five level.

 

One would think so . 5 is an invitation not a force.

 

Ken Penton

 

P  3NT shows a minimum and although I have playing strength I feel partner needs too much to make 6H.The lead goes to his softer values

 

Good point . 3NT robs so much bidding room that it should show a lack of controls needed for slam. Pulling 3NT to a major is not a slam try.

 

BJ Trelford

 

P    I am happy where we are. The fact partner has used up all the bidding room is a telling bid. Partner has a hand with no controls but good enough for game. Something like KQJx x QJTxx Kxx or why jump to game. Trust partner! No slam here.

 

Yes , I prefer 2NT forcing one round rather than the dreaded leap to 3NT.

 

 

Maurice & Susan

 

4C   Looking for a diamond cuebid. Hoping for 6H or 6NT. 

 

Doran Flock

 

5H   Trying to convey I have tricks, particularly in hearts.

 

 

 

5   Despite partners attempt to de-rail me by hogging bidding room , I making one last desperate attempt. Alex & Bryan mention the “6-4 inference” . Some people play if you bid your 4 card suit prior to your 6 card suit you are stronger. I do not have that understanding. I always bid 6-4’s by mentioning the 4 card suit regardless of the strength following my “shape before strength” philosophy to describe my hand. The 5 bid besides being invitational , should draw partners attention to a diamond control as that is the unbid suit with a 5 level invite.

 

VOTES:  4 (3)       5 (3)     4♣ (2)       P (2)  

 

 

 

Problem #:   6;   Scoring:   IMPS;   Vul:   None;   Dealer:   North

   

KJ1064
73
5

AK862

North

East

South

West

1

1

1

Pass

3

Pass

 ?

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

3S      Partner will not pass 3S and if they do we are not making it. I am torn between 3H or 3S. 3NT over 3S should have play. Over 3NT I will try 4C and then 5C or 4NT. Anything else is giving up on the spade GAME and Club slam. The problem with 3H one should have more D or a ½ H stopper.

 

Agreed.

 

Kiz Fung

 

3H      Western Cue. West is silent, seems that North (partner) might have a heart card or two.

 

Alex Fowlie

 

3H   Let's find out if partner has 3 spades or a heart stopper.  He won't have (semi-)solid diamonds and a heart stopper or he would have bid 3NT already.  So, if he does bid 3NT he'll have fitting honours in one or both of my suits.

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

3H   If pard bids 3NT we will play there. 3S should be a decent doubleton, and 4S should be playable. In this (and similar auctions) all strong hands go via a 2H cue bid (spade support, diamond 1-suiter or diamond/club 2-suiter) so pard can't have that great of a hand. We will reluctantly pass 4D and raise 4C to 5.

 

Duncan Smith

 

4C    Slam a possibility , but the opponent's lack of further heart bidding makes me fear we've gone beyond 3nt. If partner bids 4nt over 4 clubs , I'll pass.

 

Ken Penton

 

3H   A 2 way call here-does partner have hearts stopped? then I'll pass 3NT if not, does he have 3 spades? then I'll Q 4C on the way to a spade game or better and if all he can do is rebid his suit I'll raise to 5D.

 

BJ Trelford

 

3S  This has to be a bid looking for a spade game or 3nt. I can't bid 3H because that should show something in hearts and partner will bid 3nt with 1 stopper. If partner has a hand that can take 9 tricks with only 1 stopper they can bid it over 3 spades. 3 spades indicates a good hand with at least 5 spades and no heart card.

 

Either something in hearts or a partial diamond fit. Do not have either , so agree with 3♠ .

 

Maurice & Susan

 

3H  Partner may support spades now with honour doubleton. I will bid 4C over 3S. If partner bids 3NT I pass.

 

Doran Flock

 

3H  Western Q bid

 

3  When partner jumps in her suit , a bid at the 4 level is normally interpreted as a Q bid in support of her suit. 4♣ is out for that reason. I feel that the decision rests between a 3 western Q bid or a 3 bid. With my stiff diamond , I am not sure that I even want to play 3NT. 3 should show a partial diamond fit or a heart card in my opinion. With my good spade spots , I would prefer a 5-2 spade fit so I will try to encourage that route. If partner bids 3NT it will end the auction.

 

VOTES:  4♣ (1)       3 (3)           3 (6)

 

 

 

 

Problem #:   7;   Scoring:   Matchpts;   Vul:   Both;   Dealer:   South

   

J32
75
964
AKQJ7

North

East

South

West

 

 

  Pass

Pass

1

3

   ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

Dbl  Double I owe partner the Spade deuce. Pass is not an option. Another spade deuce ? J

 

Kiz Fung

 

Dbl   I hate these types of problems. I really hope that partner can bid 3NT and doesn't have 4 spades.

 

I think a double here is tantamount to a gambling 3NT. Your club suit fits the description for a calculated gamble.

 

Alex Fowlie

 

P   There is nothing to make me think we can make anything if partner can't call again.  The three small diamonds scream caution.  He opened in 3rd seat afterall.  If he's Steve Willard, or me, he might have Qxxx KQxx Qxx xx (on a good day!)

 

Passing with Steve Willard quite often is the correct action J

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

Dbl   Will pass 3H, correct 3S to 4C (pard could bid 3S with only 3 spades), pass 4H/4S and of course 3NT which is what we are hoping pard will bid. The tough follow up is if pard cue-bids 4D - should we bid 4H or 5C or 5D or 6C - 5C seems right. Too strong to Pass and 4C gets us past our favourite MP spot. 

 

Duncan Smith

 

P   No good bid available. Problem is next round. Hope it goes all pass. I would have opened 1 club and not have to have faced this mess. You agree with Maurice. I hope your “opener” is only in the matchpoint free for all.

 

Ken Penton

 

Dbl   Far too risky to pass - 3NT possible with 5 tricks, so I must fib again and make a negative double. As I usually play Flannery 2D I'm not afraid of 3S from partner as he could be 4-6 in majors with a minimum or 4-5 with 16 or more.

 

BJ Trelford

 

Dbl   This is a thrump double asking partner to bid 3nt with a diamond stopper. Over 3 spades I bid 4 hearts and hope.

 

Maurice & Susan

 

P   Maurice always opens these hands and refuses to answer. I am hoping for down 1 or 2 at matchpoints. 

 

Doran Flock

 

Dbl  Hope ptnr can bid 3nt

 

 

Dbl  You are a passed hand but you have 5 tricks for partners NT if she can bid it. My partners and myself first instinct after a 3 level negative double is to bid 3NT. In fact we would bid 3NT ahead of a 4 card spade suit. Original idea due to Marty Bergen ..

 

VOTES:  P (3)         Dbl (7)         

 

 

 

 

 

Problem #:   8;   Scoring:   IMPS;   Vul:   Both;   Dealer:   South

   

9
Q10543
K7
109875

North

East

South

West

 

 

Pass

Pass

1

Pass

1

1

Pass

3NT

Pass

Pass

Pass

 

?

 

    What is your opening lead ?

 

 

 

 

Raymond Grace

 

C10   CT the un-bid suit and if partner cannot raise H the even if we can set them up we will be entry less.

 

 

Kiz Fung

 

C10   Partner has some diamonds and 4 spades. They have a minimum 8 card spade fit so spades rate to be 5-3 or 6-2. If declarer has hearts and diamonds stopped, with 2 or three spades, clubs appears to be the suit to attack.

 

 

Alex Fowlie

 

H4   4th best from your longest and strongest!  If partner has Kxx in hearts and a side entry, we're probably beating 3NT.  East likely has a trap pass with strong diamonds, so the K of diamonds could be very wrong.  But nothing says she has particularly good hearts.  And if she has long clubs she expects to run, I have a nasty surprise for her.

 

 

Bryan Maksymetz

 

C10   This is an excellent problem and any lead could be right. Let's try and work our declarer's hand. He/she probably has 15 or 16 balanced in a soft hand - didn't want to risk a NT overcall. Also, either 2 spades or maybe 3 in a 3(433) hand, else a cue-bid. Assuming we are playing support doubles, pard has 2 or fewer hearts and is a strong favourite to hold 4 spades - a likely distribution for pard is 4243. Spade overcaller did not open 2S so if they have 6 it will be a weak suit. I think the club 10 is my first pick with a low heart a close second. 

 

 

Duncan Smith

 

H4   East clearly is ready for diamonds , maybe less so for hearts. A club could hit gold , but I'll stick with 4th from longest & strongest.

 

 

Ken Penton

 

C10   bidding suggests partner is 4 2 4 3 or 4 2 5 2 as he did not make a support double and east did not Q bid spade support -hence he holds 3S  at most. East should be 3 4 4 2 or 2 4 5 2.In any event he will have to work for his tricks in the red suits, partner should have some spade cards.

 

 

BJ Trelford

 

C10   When we have half the points and they have not shown a long source of tricks, it is not a time for aggressive defence. This lead doesn't give anything away and may produce some tricks. Partner didn't bid over 1 spades so they have a minimum and I suspect there suit is not good. A heart lead will probably give away tricks so that is out. Clubs seems to stand out.

 

 

Maurice & Susan

 

C10   Partner may be 4-2-4-3. Declarer has too many diamonds to overcall 1NT. If partner has good spades he may have opened 1S in third seat.

 

Doran Flock

 

H4 There is perhaps something in air to indicate heart lead is not right, but I don't detect it.

 

How about partner sticking his neck out in 3rd seat for a diamond lead ? J

 

 

 

K   As I disagree with this panel in addition to the original Bridge World panel who also opted for a club lead , I will get up on my soap box. Nobody mentions that their opening leads might vary depending on which seat partner opens a minor. In fact , Maurice & Susan are the only ones who mentioned 3rd seat. If partner opened 1 in 1st , 2 nd or 4 th , I would lead a club for reasons given by this panel. In 3rd seat ( like this problem ) it is a different story. I do not open a weak hand 1 in 3rd seat unless it is for a lead. I will open a 4 card major , cheat on my NT or pass before opening a shaky diamond suit in 3rd seat. If I open a bad diamond suit in 3rd seat , it is because I have so many HCP’s they most likely will not be getting to any game that requires any lead . In my mind anyway , 3rd seat openers equate to a lead director if my hand is weak enough for the opponents to reach game. Partners hand Axxx Jx AJ10xxx x and opponents diamonds Q984 . You lead a club and they chalk up 630 , she says I opened in 3rd seat for a lead L . Your reply ? Yes dear comes to mind ( thank you Peter Jones for the automated reply ) .

 

VOTES:    10 (6)      4 (3)     K (1)

 

 

 

Excellent start for the new panel season . Readers should note & study how this panel thinks to reach their conclusions on these problems. Following their logic and trying the problems yourself will improve your Bridge. Do not be intimidated by the difficulty of the problems. Use an assumed name if you feel that using your real name will embarrass you. The computer will not accept a blank name . Some examples for assumed names are “Paula Nowlan” , “Dora Lee” , “Charles Goren” , “Osama” etc .. J

This is my 3rd year for the panel and we never have had all panel members agreeing on one answer. This month we came close on two problems ( 3 & 4) . Problem 3 , I was trying to goad the panel into a bad 4NT bid but nobody went for it. Problem 4 , I was quite shocked that everybody went for the throat with a double. I did not think a pass was out of line.